Scientology Clear in Dianetics

LRH L Ron Hubbard started Scientology with the book Dianetics.

Here we can listen to comments about Scientology and life as a Scientologist. But even wider than being in a cult, by leaving the cult and becoming an Ex Scientology and an expert on Scientology form inside and outside. Holding the perspective.

Welcome to Aaron Smith Levin and the YouTube channel Scientology growing up (if it was possible) until then the channel will be named Growing up in Scientology.

Here we are testing to have a search-able index of the spoken word in the vide. Sometimes one just wonder who said that phrase or comments where and having 2 – 3 hours video to looking through but often fall asleep in the while waiting for that citation, so one is really sure of writing it completely correctly. That’s why we have tagged the author of this posting as Aaron Smith Levin, since he is the author of the spoken word together with Nathan Rick. It is just for searching and to se if its workable and search-able in a practical manner.

Scientology Growing

Ex Scientologist interviewing an ex Scientologist about Scientology, Dianetics and auditing and basically growing up and living in Scientology (as an member, in a lifestyle, by it's internal culture)

Nathanael Rich thinking back, Philosophic

- hi everyone and welcome back to growing up in Scientology we are talking again with Nathan Rich. I think this is part six man yeah yeah it's been a while hey -everybody I promised you guys we'd be back by popular demand so here we are all right so what were we talking about- we were talking about some what is-Scientology gonna do when when weed is -legal in all states recreationally -they're gonna be flicked I think we've -got it all right so here's what I was -saying I was pointing out that so many -of the things that Hubbard wrote was him -just being a person of his time not -necessarily being particularly clever -like you know the stuff he wrote in -Dianetics and science of survival -bashing homosexuals um now he might have -personally been anti-homosexual but it -was also okay to say that back then he -was being a person of his time it was -okay to be anti-homosexual the stuff he -said about marijuana being terrible I -definitely feel it was just because -marijuana was illegal it was easy to say -marijuana was terrible when it's illegal -you never hear Hubbard say well he might -say some things about you know you can't -drink alcohol I was gonna say you'll -never hear and say alcohol is bad he -says you can't drink alcohol within -hours of an auditing session but you -don't get in trouble in Scientology for -drinking alcohol you might have to do -some ethics handlings for drinking it in -excess frequently but you will get in -trouble for drinking I'm sorry for -smoking weed that no matter how -infrequently and I feel the only reason -he ever wrote anything about we being -bad for your reactive mind and your -engrams and what whatnot is because it -was illegal and it's easy to say it's -bad it's bad when society has already -outlawed it and then if Hubbard had -written Dianetics during the Prohibition -he probably would have said alcohol was -terrible for your reactive mind and -Scientologists would never have been -able to drink alcohol and then we were -sitting there saying well once weed is

-recreationally legal in all states -powers -and with Scientology going to be able to -justify telling Scientologists they are -absolutely prohibited from doing -something that is % legal and that's -when we decided to turn on turn on I hit -the record button yeah -so I well there's a couple things I -would say about that from my point of -view I never really thought about -Lafayette as being a man of his time -like that I know what you mean -time to but to me I thought that he was -just saying it's you know I thought of -it just like how Scientologists think of -it I'm basically which is that no no -it's nothing to do with that it's -because it brings the engrams into a -present time or something like that but -you know at the since I've been out of -it for so long I look back and I don't -really understand what the point of why -drugs was bad like why was that bad -again you know I still don't really get -it like yeah I understand that -speed is bad because it screws up your -body in your mind didn't that your brain -gets all screwed up okay that's pretty -clear but when it comes to things like -weed or things like like masturbation or -things like that that the general thing -that I've heard of from from him is just -like oh it brings up it brings the -engrams to present time type of type of -mentality the type of answer I still -don't really get why is that bad again -like right you know the thing like but -what does it do though like why do we -care about that so the way I could -always process that information was that -so you read Dianetics well in our cases -I didn't even read it till I was like -facking years old I didn't -pre-diabetics till I had already left -the Z or but in our case is you get -raised on the principles and dynamics at -least generally processing the -principles of Dianetics so you read -about the reactive mind you read about -how bad these engrams are you read about -how they get wrist emulator um and and -then you read that if you're tired or -you're hungry or your awareness is -otherwise suppressed tired hungry drugs -it's -easier for engrams to bearest immolated -and so once you sort of internalized -this information about engrams on the -one hand you're supposed to use -Dianetics to erase engrams but on the -other hand you're supposed to do -everything possible to prevent engrams -from being related so that you are as -much you as possible and not dramatizing -or acting out the content of your -reactive mind that's how I always took -it but then and that's fine that could -make sense to a Scientologist but then -you go okay but then it's okay to drink -alcohol and that's where I go you -couldn't say alcohol was terrible for -you at all times he couldn't he couldn't -make it against the rules to drink -alcohol because alcohol was legal -that's I'm just kind of coming up with I -think he probably I think he probably -thought to himself -yeah alcohol is that that's bad too but -I remember what happened with the -prohibition so I'm just gonna I'm just -gonna say not before auditing and a you -know saying I like the last guy that -tried to say no drinking they've turned -on him with pitchfork so uh yeah it's -fine but what don't you like again drugs -yeah I hate those too that's ugh but the -but the thing is everything you said -makes me think that that's probably why -people go clear and they think I did it -I made it because it's like now they can -masturbate and do as much drugs as they -want because they do I've reactive mind -I finally you know that's the other -thing about all this is that there's so -many things but when it comes to the -reactive mind itself it's an interesting -theory and that it's it's kind of you -know sort of out of left field and when -you take the reactive mind seriously as -Scientologists do as we both did as you -know you just think that it's real it -really it kind of there's so many -additional questions that come with it -as an answer that from a sort of Occam's -razor or scientific approach -view it's just a really bad theory -because it really only works when you -stay reading a book from it from -Lafayette and you say okay and then it -does this and that's bad and great and -then he just moves you to the next -subject and you're on to talking about -something you know thinking about -something else but when you start to dig -in and ask questions like but wait -why can I still feel that way after I'm -clear if I don't have a reactive mind -and it's like oh you're just mocking -that up it's like well then if I could -already do that and why wouldn't I have -just been mocking it up before when I -before is clear when I suppose II have -this reactive mind and there's just like -that's just one of a hundred questions -that I've have had in my mind since I -was a kid that I've never found -satisfactory answers to yes sure sure so -one of the things that well I find -interesting on this subject of what it's -supposed to mean to go clear in -Scientology what Scientologists think is -happening when they go clear so you and -I can remember you and I personally have -already discussed this but the clear -cognition when someone's getting -Dianetics auditing the thing they are -supposed to realize come to an awareness -of is oh my god as a spiritual being as -a thing I have been actively creating my -own reactive mind the whole time like -it's not something that was on autopilot -it's not something that someone else -created I've been actively creating this -thing and now that I'm aware of that I'm -not doing it anymore and holy shit when -I don't react to find just went away -because I just stopped creating it right -but so that's the clear cognition but -here's something that's so fascinating -people who are getting Dianetics -auditing do not know that that is what -the auditor is waiting to hear um -the auditor doesn't even know that's -what the auditor is waiting to hear the -case supervisor -who reviews all the auditing notes -usually does not know that's what the

-pre-clear is supposed to say -if you're in an organization where the -person is sufficiently trained the -senior case supervisor is the only one -in the organization sometimes who even -know is that's what the person is -supposed to say and my point where I'm -going with all this is that lets say the -pre-clear spits out something like that -and the auditor happens to write it down -it goes to the case supervisor it goes -to the senior case supervisor this -person could literally be attested to -the state of clear and never once be -told what it is that they said that -allowed them to attest to the state of -clear so they may not even realize that -that is what it meant to go clear to -realize they were mocking they were -creating their own reactive money now of -course no one says that realization in -quite those exact words -part of the art of figuring out if -someone is clear is getting them to sort -of say something that was close enough -that you're like okay bingo we got it we -can call this guy clear okay so my point -that was just that Scientologists who -are clear still don't necessarily know -that that is what qualified them to be -called clear but then you have this -policy in Scientology where you're not -supposed to audit Dianetics on someone -who's attested to clear and here's why -and this kind of goes back to its wager -said is that once you've realized that -as a being you were creating your own -reactive mind that's fine you as a being -you still have to be able T to create -your reactive mind it's just that you've -now decided not to do it anymore but if -you audit that person on Dianetics -you're asking the thing in to create new -mental pictures and engrams and recall -them you're actually asking them to -recreate their reactive mind and that is -why you're not allowed to audit -Dianetics on a clear and so I'm -mentioning that because you met you you -sort of alluded to this cognitive -dissonance of will have attested to -clear how come I still feel this way -this is how this is one of the ways -people justify why someone who's clear -still acts like they have a reactive -mind -they just accidentally started creating -it again oops my bad -right so there's a few things I could -say about that so first of all yeah I -didn't know about the sort of running up -the chain of command of who's allowed to -know what the cognition is the the -realization in Scientology they said -cognition for some stupid f'cking reason -it's one of those words that already has -an English word that means the exact -same thing but they just insist on -making up another one -you know like backflash when I when I -was first like out of the ranch I -remember I said the word backflash to -someone and they're like f'ck you -talking on its a backlash you know like -when you talk back to someone they're -like you mean back talk and that was -like why did they call it I didn't look -it up and dictionary wasn't there and I -was like oh it's not a real word I was -like why did they make up the word -backflash there's a readi word that's -exactly the same amount of syllables -practically the same word already called -back talk and it's more clear it's -easier anyway um I I didn't realize that -that that they had that sort of chain of -command and who's allowed to to know -what the cognition is that that part's -interesting the first thing I thought of -when you told me I think you did tell me -the clear cognition before but the first -thing I thought of when you told me it -this time what is you know what a stupid -thing to realize because if you pay -attention I know people that aren't -psychologists or weren't Scientologists -won't really get this but as you -navigate around and the the extreme -amounts of text and ideas and everything -that is Scientology I mean it's you -literally can't even imagine how many -words this guy wrote one of the core -ideas that's drilled in your head all -the time is that you are the person that -is responsible for everything there's -never anything that's put as a like -uh-oh except for that thing it's it's -everything everything in your life that -you do or that is done to you that is -affecting you that you are affecting -others with it's all completely because -of you so I think if I got to the that -that clear if I had if I had been in a -situation when somebody said like don't -you see you know you've been mocking up -your that you know your active mind this -whole time like yeah dude I learned that -on -the third week I was in Scientology I -got it yeah what's what is the big -cognition I don't understand and then -when I was thinking about that I was -thinking about remind me of something -else I'm gonna sidetrack sorry everybody -but that's what we're here for man we're -doing long-form okay I was thinking -about touch assists and I remember we -were talking about that as you see the -touch assists or nervous or whatever -contact assist and I remember we were -talking a little bit about like how you -just get tired of doing I mean like sure -I realized you know I didn't realize -that lamp was there and they're like -good enough you know and I started to -think about realizations the other night -when I was trying to sleep and I was -realizing that you know there's a lot of -processes and courses and stuff that you -do in Scientology where the EP or the -the in phenomenon of what you're -supposed to get like how you know that -you're done is that you realize -something there's a lot of them it's -very common in Scientology like you know -you're done because the PC will have a -cognition and incur to me the other day -that you know I realize stuff all the -time now just sitting around on my couch -I'm just look around go oh you know that -real I said that wire was oh there oh -that's what that guy meant you know -whatever it is and I just not like I -realized if you will that what a -convenient way to to get you know to -attribute what you're doing to that -realization it's like okay you're gonna -you're gonna make a cake and you're -gonna make that cake all day long until -you have a realization and then of -course you're making a cake and you -realize something you go my god this -works making cakes gives me realizations -and and it just made me really think -about this whole cognition idea as such -an interesting kind of sleight of hand -because Scientologists and you know -especially active Scientologists they -really believe that you get realizations -you get cognitions from doing -Scientology and yet I realize things all -any Scientology -so no I mean realizing something is like -it's just a matter of thinking about you -could sit here and think about -absolutely anything like I'm trying to -give a stupid example of what might be -able to pass as a cognition and an -auditing session -it's literally noticing or thinking -about anything new at all like I could -be sitting here watching a video about -the movement of tectonic plates and -let's just say I was in an auditing -session and whatever and for some reason -I'm running a repetitive auditing -command where it's recall something -that's really real to you recall -something that's really real to you -recall something that's really real to -you I'm like tectonic plates are really -real to me you know um the the the the -core of the earth is real to me the -cross I could see here we go -I just realized I just realized the -relationship between um the movement of -the tectonic plates and the and that the -creation of mountains it just just -became clear to me that it ever has been -before and once you've been adding the -bottoming you know how to word something -so that it truly sounds good enough to -be accepted as a cognition and you can -literally say that it could have nothing -to do with the auditing process you're -gonna have nothing to do with the -auditing session any realization about -life or any component of life or -anything at all in an auditing session -is considered a cognition and is the end -of the auditing process as long as the -PC is legitimately happy and the needle -on the emailer is floating which means -very smoothly going back and forth once -you do that boom you're done but like -you said I could sit here and literally -watch YouTube and have a hundred -cognition today yeah yeah it happens to -me all the time and I just kind of one -dose like the other night was thinking -you know I realize stuff all the time -and I don't attribute it to anything -other than I'm thinking about that thing -and a figuring stuff out or I'm just -taking a fresh look at something or you -know whatever just brand right ah -but yeah as far as drugs go there is one -thing that I -read in I will say I learned from -Scientology not to say that there's not -other places to learn but it's where I -happened to learn that drugs make you -wooden feeling mmm wouldn't it dad oh -you know what that was I think he said a -lot about that in will he probably said -it in many places but in the references -where he talked about why this -superpower auditing rundowns were so -important it was because society had -become I might be getting various -references conflated right now this -deadness this wouldn't miss this a -disassociation had a lot to do with the -drug culture and television drugs and -television and Sykes Sykes are the ones -pushing television and drugs on the kids -drugs are bad okay that's so true -but I will say the drug you know real -drugs I have personally you know I've -been walking around like a zombie and -thought to myself my god I have no -emotions I have no feeling left I just -feel like a like like wooden Lafayette -you've got one you got one buddy you got -one but but you know the whole thing -about the purest I was talking I wrote -some post about I think I've done the -pure of about four or five times now and -I've never I you know you know you're -done with the fear of when you just know -that's this the EP of the pyramids you -just you just know and so that's the -moment when you're kind of sick of doing -it and you just feel like everything's -kind of the same and it's been around -this the amount of time that you deduced -that it was supposed to be taking maybe -a little longer and then you just kind -of go like yeah I'm done and they're -like are you sure you're done you're -like oh I'm done I feel great do you -ever happen to recall if by the time on -any of your purest if by the time you -finished or by the you know by the time -you said whatever you said did you -already know damn well that that's what -you needed to say in order to be done -yeah I knew because -because the the the book the clear body -clear mind whatever it just says like -you're done when you're free of all you -know toxins and whatever and I was kind -of like you the first thing you ask this -how do you know when you're done look -you'll know you'll just know yeah and -then and then basically I think for me -then they would take you in if you think -that you're done the poyo actin on the -cans and then the like and then they'll -kind of do the whole sort of like oh I -think maybe you can do some more in -there try not to evaluate you for you -but they'll basically send you back in -for more and then I just basically you -know just game it how you do in a normal -session you just pile on okay I got to -be cheery here next time I got a really -feel it next time well yeah I mean when -they put you in the mirror and again if -anyone is knowledgeable enough to -correct me on this technically jump into -the comment section below please again -that's just them trying to get you to -say something that sounds extremely -positive they call it very good -indicators VG eyes -cheerful happy to say something and have -your needle float on the e meter because -that's supposed to be like the golden -standard for whether what you're saying -is legitimately happy alright I chalk up -finishing the purif to just having -happened to just have happen to get a -few nights are really good sleep and to -walk into the org that day in a really -good mood and being like I'm f'cking -done today I feel great you know you get -a few nights a good sleep everything -feels light and cheerful and bright -you're just in a good mood like nothing -can get me down must be rid of all those -drugs and toxins yeah and yeah the whole -pier of thing is interesting because -like me I'm out of shape I don't really -do much I just kind of go to work and I -you know I'm wooden what can I say you -know just like Lafayette said so when I -think about if I were to do the pier of -now I remember a long time ago the the -thing is that on your pure if you do I -think it's minutes of rigorous -exercise usually running each day before -you get into sauna to get your heart -rate up and there's this whole strict -thing and the -if I did nothing nothing at all but -exactly the same thing I'm doing now and -minutes of running every day for a -month I will feel amazing I feel like -the toxins are out you know call the -press this works and so you know sitting -in a sauna is is relaxing and fun and -everything and and I'm not necessarily -one to say like you know that it's -impossible that it helps you at all I -mean you're you're imparting yourself -with vitamins and water and exercise and -whatever so maybe it maybe it is a shock -to this shock to the system maybe it's -not good for you I don't really know I'm -not a doctor but I do know that there's -an easy way to again to just dispel all -of the doubt that's easy you just get -some of those guys in the white coats -with the pocket protectors and the -glasses right and they love statistics -and data they're called scientists right -you get some scientists and doctors to -evaluate somebody that has toxins and do -a bit long story short you do it one of -these like double-blind studies or -whatever and you prove that the program -works that's all you have to do I -promise you there's nobody in the world -that's trying to suppress you from doing -that no one is trying to stop you -no one's gonna falsify the data no one's -gonna you know rig the test we want it -to work if the purif worked I would be -the jumping off with the front you know -up and down on the rooftops yelling to -everybody we got to do it but there's no -proof there's no evidence -it's true and but that's the thing and -there's this concept of toxins in your -body defined toxins it's a misnomer -um yeah like like oh just don't -understand how the f'cking liver works -just because your liver filters out -toxins from your blood doesn't mean your -liver is now full of toxins that's not -how f'cking bye-bye biochemistry works -I've watched so many videos recently on -this subject -you know doing a cleanse and getting rid -of the toxins it's all horseshit -it's all horseshit but you know I was -going to say something similar to what -you just mentioned which is that there -are plenty people out there even people -who left Scientology who say the pure -have helped them the thing that I think -is important to come back to is first of -all anything can be helpful even if it's -bullshit the placebo effect is real um -but also something can be helpful but -not for the reasons Hubbard said it was -supposed to be helpful it can be helpful -for totally different reasons kind of -what you said if you're a couch potato -and you're just living a shiftless life -and you know yeah and you now go to -doing minutes of cardio every day and -taking vitamins and you know that once -you start doing that you automatically -watch what you eat they tell you not to -change your diet but that's bullshit -everyone's like I'm healthy now I'm on -the pier so they start eating a little -better they have to be sessionable so -they get enough sleep they're taking -vitamins you know being in a sauna feels -good being a surfer and and eventually -someone gets to a point where they're -like I feel better now so they're also -being told that that's how they're -supposed to feel you're supposed to feel -better that's how this works this is -going to make you feel better um you -know I did an interview a few days ago -with Marcus Sawyer he was having heavy -heavy hallucination like / -hallucinating in life and for him doing -the purif did help minimize his -hallucinations we can't say why it did -but we also can't say that it works the -way Hubbard said it works right um what -I want to say on that one thing there -though you said that they don't ask you -to change the diet but that's not -entirely true because I remember -specifically that it does say like it's -like oh just eat the normal stuff you -eat you know like tons of raw veggies -and like you don't I mean like all this -tons of this like organic this and and -you're going like yeah I don't think -anyone eats that but okay I'd have to -look at the references oh I remember it -saying don't change your diet and you're -not supposed to you're not supposed to -be losing -they would consider that a bad thing -yeah the losing weight they they what -they do is they give you a bunch of oil -to cap to counteract it and that oil it -doesn't do anything so you just keep -losing weight and they're just you're -drinking more and more disgusting oil -with that -what's that granular Schlesser thing -they left it then yeah and so you're -just you're like washing down these -beady little weird tasting things and -then all this oil is really disgusting -actually but yeah and of course I'm sure -different pure if I sees I see and -Scientology ins for in charge so the -person in charge of the pier if is -called the purify sea I'm sure many of -them do it different ways but um what -the hell are we talking about oh just -just acknowledging the fact that there -are people who do feel this helps them -there's no evidence that it helps people -for the reason Hubbard says it helps -people and in fact there's tons of -evidence that it doesn't mom and you -know two things I want to touch on not -specific about the purif but in general -kind of tangents but at least you know -relatively related to the overall -subject we're discussing here so the -reactive mind I don't believe anything -in Dianetics works the way Hubbard says -it works but you also have psychiatry -and Freud's work and whatnot um this is -an area where I have opinions about -something that I'm not not only might -not an expert in I'm barely -knowledgeable in this area at all as far -as what Hubbard Freud ever really said -or wrote I've never studied his books -I've never taken any classes or courses -um and I'm saying that because being as -ignorant on the subject as I am I'm -still I am NOT impressed with this stuff -I've heard regurgitated from Freud I go -I'm sorry that sounds just as much -bullshit as the f'cking stuff Hubbard -said but again I realized that my -opinion is still sort of based in -ignorance um I might be educated and -have the same opinion but I'm just -saying you know what you know what I -mean uh so the reason I meant bringing -this up is because the reactive mind is -analogous to whatever the subconscious -mind is supposed to be in psychiatry in -psychology -whatever the subconscious is supposed to -be in those subjects is -what the reactive mind is in Scientology -this concept that you don't call it the -unconscious mind because it's the only -mind that's always conscious it's always -recording and it's always reacting even -when your analytical mind is fully -suppressed and my understanding is that -that is how the subconscious mind is -supposed to work in psychiatry and -psychology so it would probably more -productive have this conversation with -someone who really knew what the f'ck -they were talking about but I wanted to -ask you your opinion on this people say -you know it's easy to say oh Dianetics -is completely horseshit and hubbard made -it all up and invented it all um he -certainly created the whole construct -that is Dianetics but let's not pretend -that he didn't completely found the -entire thing on what had already been -researched or whatever as far as the -subconscious mind goes how related do -you feel the the reactive month the -reactive mind of Dianetics is to the -subconscious mind of psychiatry and -psychology do you have any opinion on -that well first of all thank you for -suggesting that I don't know what the -fack I'm talking about oh maybe you do -I've never asked you know I don't know I -didn't really don't I talk about my ass -but I I know I know as much as a -freshman high school dropout would know -so there you go so my opinion is that -useful but there's a there's just -something interesting which is kind of a -side point to what you're saying so I -won't go too far into it which is that -I've noticed that he does that a lot -Lafayette where he will grab on to an -existing idea and then kind of tweak it -I go look at this brand new thing which -is really just I think what sets the -precedent for people to be so eager to -get into alternative medicine and -alternative solutions and this is a -superfood and this is the way out and it -really appeals to those people where -it's like no it's not that it's this and -it's almost exactly the same thing in -your friend zone I think that's still -just this with some weird little spin on -it -but another thing there is that there's -a difference there's there's another -difference I think which is that my -understanding of the sort of the real -worlds idea of what the subconscious is -is that it wouldn't be able it wouldn't -necessarily be aware on any level when -you're for example under the knife -getting surgery it may be active you may -be having some experience but it doesn't -know that you're in surgery and what's -going on around you necessarily now you -see that sometimes in TV shows or -whatever but I don't know that that that -the you know that the medical community -what was like to psychiatrists or -psychologists or whatever -as you can see em I I'm still foggy on -what the hell did it is but I'm not sure -that they would say that that's real I -don't know but in Scientology -psychiatrists have to be MDS and can -prescribe medicine and psychologists are -not MDS and cannot prescribe medicine -done that's the only difference -so in psychiatrists you come from the -planet parsec and are evil and -psychologists are just pts to them so if -I go get some psychiatric education I'm -suddenly now from another planet I like -how that works out like we're engineers -from cuz I can go get an engineering -degree boom now I'm from Neptune so -you're saying that the subconscious mind -isn't something in the normal world that -can record moments of unconsciousness -whereas in Scientology the diet and -Dianetics the reactive mind is recording -moments of pain and unconsciousness I -believe I believe I may be wrong because -I'm also doing with the hell I'm talking -about but I believe that that's a -difference is that because basically for -people that don't know sort of this area -of the reactive mind discussion if I -were totally unconscious if I got hit by -a car or I'm in a coma or I'm getting -surgery in Scientology -you know world my reactor mine would -still be recording everything as -in-ground right the I'm still getting -affected by everything that's happening -around me whether or not I know it at -some basically later later date and they -kind of they talk about it very directly -I mean Lafayette very sort of you're -walking down the street and you see a -red you know I don't know the exactly -the example but you see a red dress and -then your leg hurts well that's because -your leg Donna you know hurt by somebody -who's wearing red two years ago or -something and I've always noticed that -that I've never noticed that actually -happening to me -which is another weird things mean like -never ever not once you know you would -think that and all the times I've -stubbed my toe or you know had some even -really bad painful you know thing -happened to me like when I track sure my -wrist into multiple places I remember -virtually everything about that accident - a few times of you know kind of -blacking out or just you know moments of -flying through the air you don't really -paying attention and everything that I -can come across from that time I have I -mean motorcycle the same truck the guys -name the the school the city I was in -the circumstances I was in everything -and I've never once been like oh my -wrist or oh my anything else that that -was damaged that day and and so I think -that that's kind of a the whole Engram -thing is it can be almost completely -written off I just I really kind of want -to believe it because it gives you that -there's some way some direct -back-channel to like solve all of life's -problems but I don't see any evidence of -it and i actually have looked for -evidence for a long time in my own self -in my own experience and i have not -found any like none I have never ever so -a true the true believer hurts that's -because of that thing that reminds me of -so a true Dionysus would say you're not -supposed to ever be able to analytically -like you personally if you're talking -about you being related you're not -supposed to ever be able to personally -connect the dots between the Engram and -your present time pain painful emotion -either physical pain or emotional pain -your reactive mind is supposed to always -make what's happening to you in present -time make perfect sense and so and there -was something else I was gonna say on -that there was a to that point don't you -think that that's a little weird that we -would design a system that's entire -purpose is to protect you right it's -it's from a long time ago I'm not sure -people know I like sort of how the -reactive mind supposedly came about but -basically it's it's sort of it's served -its purpose it was useful a long time -ago and now it doesn't really work and -it's sort of the basic idea about -spending hours on it is that back when -you know you're running around and -everything was gonna eat you you go down -in a cave and something attacks you and -hurts you and kills you or whatever the -next time you're not really you're not -going to go back down in that cave that -that type of app idea but if you're -designing that kind of system it seems -like the first most important thing you -would want it to do is when you see that -cave you think why am I thinking of a -lion eating my face right now every time -I look at that cave I believe it you -throw a lion seat in my face No thank -you I'll go this way -but of course there's some reason some -justification for why oh no no no yeah -that's you could never really see it you -know right yeah no I'm glad you -mentioned that because I had sort of -forgot to connect those dots like -Hubbard's theory is that in lower order -lower order organisms that works -strictly on a stimulus-response basis -the reactive mind exists to allow them -to survive by taking previous moments of -pain and unconsciousness and -automatically bringing them back into -play sort of bringing almost the lessons -of those things back into place that you -can avoid danger and pain and now that -we've evolved in -I can't remember if Dianetics even talks -about that this is something the -reactive mind is something that we have -retained from literally earlier steps in -evolution like not just pre humanoid -forms but you know back when we were -still monkeys or mollusks or you know -whatever Hubbard says we were I can't -remember if he says we have retained -that from millions of years ago but now -that we are higher order beings higher -order organisms he wasn't talking about -things and Dianetics yet that it's now a -hindrance to us whereas it used to aid -our survival it now hurts our survival -um budget which is problematic I almost -can't even let you finish to that -because it's that opens up a whole -plethora of problems in this theory like -if if that were if it was literally that -linear linear and what you're saying is -you're also saying then therefore that -lower life-forms can evolve into higher -it life-forms like us and not the other -way around -so I or your sludge your little worm or -whatever cannot have a thetan because -that Phaeton would bring with it its -reactive mind that's true but just -remember dynamics he wasn't talking -about things yet what do you mean he was -talking about Payton's went back when he -was Buddha years ago or whatever -no no literally he didn't start saying -he was Buddha until late until well -after Dianetics no and but again what -you're pointing out just brings to light -all the contradictions later in -Scientology he then started saying he -was Buddha but then if he was Buddha -then why wasn't he talking about -anything spiritual in Dianetics -Dianetics was supposed to be his science -of the mind that he tried to give as a -gift to the medical and psychiatric -communities he wasn't talking about past -lives he wasn't talking about things or -spirits or religion it was supposed to -be just a f'ackingscience and then and -then science of survival the second book -started to touch on past lives and that -was the stepping stone into Scientology -because you only have past lives if you -if they -if we're just the that's the that's the -one that Scientologists at least that -I've known identify as that's the first -book of Scientology which is like -survival yeah it's kind of weird to -explain to people like no Dianetics yeah -I just say yeah as far as I'm college -even though technically the way that -they think about it is it's like a -precursor to Scientology but but the way -I always always you know taught about -dayton's is that they're just very -dynamic like you could have a thetan -just over there -you could have a say in it your cat -could have Dayton most of them would -which again starts to get weird when you -say what about the ones that don't what -is right that word again I think it -sounded like I was disagreeing with you -a moment ago but really I was agreeing -with you it's just the timeline of it -you're right -Scientologists think things can occupy -any life form or even inanimate objects -for that matter -yet in Dianetics you're talking about -this evolution um but but that's where -again that's why you get the -contradiction that was because he wasn't -even talking or thinking about Fagin's -or past lives when he wrote Dianetics -even though then later on he started -acting like no he's been this spiritual -pen before thousands of years so you're -like then why did you forget to bring -that shit up and Dianetics that yeah -really you know he was actually just -dipping the lady's from from what I from -what I've seen so this this is gonna -bring them up again for those who -haven't seen him yet this is my boy so -he's actually relevant to the discussion -right now because he's a very tough guy -okay this is like a Alley Cat -extraordinaire like it really can kick -some ass he's huge I don't know if he -can tell how big he's enormous -so anyway how much does he weigh I don't -know -I'm scared away him cuz I'm he's so big -but this cat okay he was sitting on the -couch and he heard there was some like -tapping oh I'm sure my being too loud -there was some tapping on the wall -somebody next door doing something -whatever and the look in his eyes right -was like I don't know if you've had -before but you look in his eyes and your -let you're going that is the exact look -that I would have if I were remembering -the time that a Tyrannosaurus Rex tapped -on the wall and then tore through it and -chewed up me and my whole family right -it's just like he's going oh it's just -like tap tap tap tap tap tap and -Scientologists would tend to think oh -that's his reactive mind I did this is -it he's he's getting or stimulated about -something that has happened who knows -been who knows when -which again contradicts what sound what -it sounds like -Lafayette was saying in Dianetics -because it's kind of like oh wait why -does he have all of that and then I'm -also finding out that he has a baton so -that baton can just be a human next life -nothing stopping it so then you see I'm -saying it's kind of like well sure no I -guess it brings up the question is -Hubbard saying that the reactive mind -follows the organism through the -evolutionary track or does the reactive -mind follow the things that are -occupying the organisms and I follow the -whole organism because well do you -remember all that bullshit about the GE -the genetic entity that was supposed to -be sort of the reactive mind / Satan -sludge

.....No the conversation about living in Scientology between Aaron Smith-Levin and Nathan Ritch became to long to be practical and manageable as easily as thought.